Author Topic: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion  (Read 5010 times)

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Offline BGT

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2008, 07:10:35 AM »
UN official: US neglects Katrina victims By CAIN BURDEAU, Associated Press Writer
Thu Jan 17, 3:36 AM ET
 


NEW ORLEANS - A United Nations official who has toured parts of Louisiana and Mississippi devastated by Hurricane Katrina says the thousands of victims of the storm resemble poor people displaced by natural disasters in other parts of the world.

"Whether you're displaced in a rich country or a poor country, what remains the same is you need to get the help, the assistance of the authorities, of the communities, to be able to restart a normal life, and the people I have met are not there yet," said Walter Kalin, the UN secretary general's representative on the human rights of internally displaced persons.

Kalin spoke Wednesday, a day when he also saw hard-hit areas of the two states. He met Tuesday with evacuees in Houston.

The United Nations' human rights committee has been critical of the Bush administration's efforts to help people displaced by Katrina, particularly those without the financial means to rebuild.

Federal officials deny that evacuees have received inadequate aid, noting that billions of dollars have been spent to house hurricane victims in apartments, trailers and other homes.

Since Katrina hit on Aug. 29, 2005, the government has spent more than $7.7 billion on housing for about 1.4 million households, according to figures from the Office of the Federal Coordinator for Gulf Coast Rebuilding.

Many evacuees will continue to be housed until March 2009, said Tara Wall, a spokeswoman for the federal coordinator's office. She said the government has also set up programs to help displaced evacuees return to New Orleans.

"We are constantly working with state, local and federal partners to restore, rebuild and improve the quality of life for displaced New Orleanians — and we've made great strides," Wall said.

Kalin said his mission was to encourage American officials to abide by a set of UN principles on "internally displaced persons" that say "you must start with the most needy, you have to find ways to reconstruct housing that is affordable."



Offline monstertruck

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2008, 06:11:33 PM »
dmas, I'm not saying that no help arrived. I live here, and I know what has happened and what hasn't happened. But monstertruck inferred that that since the people knew the risks for living in New Orleans, they shouldn't get help when their own government lets them down saying, "Now the government is responsible for protecting it's citizens from Mother Nature?!?!?"

That's what I disagree on. That's like saying the fire station shouldn't exist because people should be responsible for protecting their homes against fires.
People SHOULD be responsible for protecting their own homes against fire.  Most fires are preventable with a bit of common sense, for the rest, I'm willing to contribute towards a fire station.  Back to the original topic here, the whole concept of someone suing the government (i.e. fellow taxpayers) for pain and suffering over a natural disaster to me seems ludicrous.
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2008, 06:17:44 PM »
Give me a freakin' break!  Now the government is responsible for protecting it's citizens from Mother Nature?!?!?  I think I'm gonna puke. :mad1:

The damn fools.  The taxpayers ARE the government for cryin' out loud.
That concludes my rant for this evening. :zipped:


Well, as a Katrina victim, (I have never lived in New Orleans or the Gulf Coast but we did get a lot of damage) I think it's the government's responsibility to help these people get back on their feet and to ensure this never happens again. As far as having levees strong enough to have endured a strong storm. As for the former, I know there are a lot of FEMA trailer parks that are closing and the people living there are complaining they have no place to go. ..-) They have 2.5 years rent free and haven't saved enough money to rent an apartment or to buy a house or to have somewhere to go.. double ..-) That's what's ridiculous. ;-()
As a taxpayer I couldn't disagree with you more.
Those folks chose to live there knowing full well that area is below sea-level and is prone to hurricaines.  Expecting some man-made contraption to withstand the forces of Mother Nature is foolhardy.  Expecting me to fund such stupidity smacks of Socialism and as you may have guessed by now, I'm not a big fan of the Socialist Democratic Party. ;-()

I'd say your comments of the folks who've lived off the taxpayer for 2.5 years without taking the personal responsibility to rebuild their lives and get off the dole supports the comments I've made.

What about if a blizzard stranded you in your home? Shouldn't the government (FEMA) and National Guard help you because you can't help yourself? Or should you and your neighbors dig yourselves out because you live in an area with seriously strong winter weather?

Also, the wildfire victims. Should the government not help those people because they knew they were living in an area where wildfires could occur? Or people living in tornado alley? What if you were in an airplane and it crashed right after take off. Should no one come to help you because, "You know there are dangers to flying and should help yourselves escape an enflamed fuselage." Where would it end. ..-)

I'm sorry monstertruck, but it's the responsibility to help people in need. Not fund them for the rest of their lives, but help them. It's just the 'good person' in me to know that people need help.

and dmas, I know it is ultimately our responsibility to help ourselves. But it's the government's responsibility to keep us safe from levee breaches, crime, terrorism. You could also say it's our responsibility to defend ourselves against murderers and terrorists. Maybe we should all form militias and do away with the Army. Suburban moms can form their own Mommy Militias. ;-()

also monstertruck: no one is going to leave new orleans because it is under sea level. It can be protected from that. Look at the Dutch. Their entire nation is below sea level but have not been flooded for decades.. longer probably but I'm going by memory. The government decided to protect its nation, people, and history by building a secure and safe flood protection system designed by engineers. I'm sure a poor rural housewife could not design something like that on her own.  ;-()
I certainly have no problem surviving a blizzard and am stock piled here with food and wood enough to make it through the winter.  That is my responsibility, not yours.  Folks who choose to live below sea-level or in an area prone to wildfires should accept the same personal responsibility that I do.  Alas, most folks would rather be "victims" these days....
I am more than willing to help people that are trying to help themselves, however the thought of someone suing the government i.e. me the taxpayer for their pain & suffering because they couldn't get out of the way of a hurricaine that was forecast days in advance is complete B.S. in my book.
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2008, 06:18:49 PM »
It is an infrastructure thing.  Nobody wants to spend endless amounts of money on taxes to make 100% sure that nothing bad could ever happen.....that is not even realistic.  Yet, those same people want to b**ch when some disaster like this happens.  You can't have it perfectly both ways, shiiite will happen..............unfortunately!

Good call on the Dutch under sea level BGT, how did you know that?   
Aren't the Dutch Socialists?  I'll pass on that form of gov. thanks anyway...
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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2008, 06:22:54 PM »
Then monstertruck should clarify his comments. :)
Have I made myself "crystal clear"? ;-()
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Offline OSU Buckeye

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2008, 06:25:23 PM »
It is about time to see MT up in here.......where you been dude? 

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2008, 06:25:46 PM »
Then monstertruck should clarify his comments. :)

Where has MT been anyway? 

He's been a bit sick recently.
The whole dang family has been sick since Christmas Day!!!  That includes the 5 house guests we've had off and on the past few weeks.  I'm finally on the mend and hoping to hit some fuzzy yellow balls this evening which should improve my spirits dramatically!!! :))
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Offline BGT

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2008, 06:36:37 PM »
Then monstertruck should clarify his comments. :)
Have I made myself "crystal clear"? ;-()


You have proven that you are believe in social Darwinism.

That is the belief that humans (like plants and animals) compete for existence.. survival of the fittest. The government should not interfere in anything like regulating the economy or helping with poverty. Instead, they favor a laissez-faire approach to government, or "let them do" in terms of self-regulation. In effect, the strong will survive and the weak will die off.



Offline dmastous

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2008, 08:06:11 PM »
Then monstertruck should clarify his comments. :)
Have I made myself "crystal clear"? ;-()


You have proven that you are believe in social Darwinism.

That is the belief that humans (like plants and animals) compete for existence.. survival of the fittest. The government should not interfere in anything like regulating the economy or helping with poverty. Instead, they favor a laissez-faire approach to government, or "let them do" in terms of self-regulation. In effect, the strong will survive and the weak will die off.

I'd say that is a pretty accurate description of life on Earth. I'm fairly familiar with Social Darwinism and it's development as a philosophy. There is much that I find accurate in it. It's not an end all, there are distinctly human traits that countermand the natural force of life.
I think if you look up Libertarianism you will come closer to what MT is talking about.

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Offline BGT

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2008, 10:27:59 AM »
It's also a way to justify racism. The Nazis used it to justify the Holocaust. I forgot the term, but in the 1880's, people of the developed 'civilized' world justified taking over Africa and Asia because they felt it was their 'moral' obligation to Christianize the people... at the same time, taking their land and resources. :whistle:



Offline Pacer

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2008, 12:17:10 PM »
It's also a way to justify racism. The Nazis used it to justify the Holocaust. I forgot the term, but in the 1880's, people of the developed 'civilized' world justified taking over Africa and Asia because they felt it was their 'moral' obligation to Christianize the people... at the same time, taking their land and resources. :whistle:


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Offline Pacer

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2008, 12:47:00 PM »
It's also a way to justify racism. The Nazis used it to justify the Holocaust. I forgot the term, but in the 1880's, people of the developed 'civilized' world justified taking over Africa and Asia because they felt it was their 'moral' obligation to Christianize the people... at the same time, taking their land and resources. :whistle:


Also, the theory of Social Darwanism was developed by anthropologist Herbert Spencer, who in essence was anti-polictical. However, this ideology has been abandoned by those within the anthropological discipline and has been adopted by racialist scientist. Racialist science believe that the inequalities that exist in our world are the result of biological determinism and thus Social Darwinism. However, most of their theories have been disproven and abandoned,needless to say racialist scientist are not the most respected discipline. People are always trying to justify something, people are also always looking for scapegoats to give themselves a sense of superiority, I'm not speaking about anyone here I'm just speaking on the human condition in general. ;-()
Ralphie: I want an official Red Ryder, carbine action, two-hundred shot range model air rifle! <br /><br />Mrs. Parker: No, you\'ll shoot your eye out.

Offline Swish

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2008, 05:50:16 PM »
It's also a way to justify racism. The Nazis used it to justify the Holocaust. I forgot the term, but in the 1880's, people of the developed 'civilized' world justified taking over Africa and Asia because they felt it was their 'moral' obligation to Christianize the people... at the same time, taking their land and resources. :whistle:


Also, the theory of Social Darwanism was developed by anthropologist Herbert Spencer, who in essence was anti-polictical. However, this ideology has been abandoned by those within the anthropological discipline and has been adopted by racialist scientist. Racialist science believe that the inequalities that exist in our world are the result of biological determinism and thus Social Darwinism. However, most of their theories have been disproven and abandoned,needless to say racialist scientist are not the most respected discipline. People are always trying to justify something, people are also always looking for scapegoats to give themselves a sense of superiority, I'm not speaking about anyone here I'm just speaking on the human condition in general. ;-()

The sad thing about those feeling superior is they end up equal at six feet under.


Offline dmastous

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2008, 06:14:07 PM »
It's also a way to justify racism. The Nazis used it to justify the Holocaust. I forgot the term, but in the 1880's, people of the developed 'civilized' world justified taking over Africa and Asia because they felt it was their 'moral' obligation to Christianize the people... at the same time, taking their land and resources. :whistle:

And Christianity was used to justify killing women for being witches, and torturing people in Europe. Galileo died in prison because he had the gaul to indicate that Jupiter had moons! Islam is now used to justify the killing of innocents all over the world.
Do we now say the are bad?
When are we going to stop blaming the philosophy, and blame the people who pervert the philosophy?
« Last Edit: January 20, 2008, 06:14:45 PM by dmastous »

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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2008, 06:41:51 PM »
Then monstertruck should clarify his comments. :)
Have I made myself "crystal clear"? ;-()


You have proven that you are believe in social Darwinism.

That is the belief that humans (like plants and animals) compete for existence.. survival of the fittest. The government should not interfere in anything like regulating the economy or helping with poverty. Instead, they favor a laissez-faire approach to government, or "let them do" in terms of self-regulation. In effect, the strong will survive and the weak will die off.
You are mistaken my dear BGT.  As DMast said, I am more of a Libertarian politically and philosophically I would say I am an Objectivist.

It could easily be argued that you are an advocate for inequality in the human race by saying that I have any obligation to take care of anyone other than myself.  Are we all equals here or not? ;-()
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Offline BGT

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2008, 09:17:53 PM »
Then monstertruck should clarify his comments. :)
Have I made myself "crystal clear"? ;-()


You have proven that you are believe in social Darwinism.

That is the belief that humans (like plants and animals) compete for existence.. survival of the fittest. The government should not interfere in anything like regulating the economy or helping with poverty. Instead, they favor a laissez-faire approach to government, or "let them do" in terms of self-regulation. In effect, the strong will survive and the weak will die off.
You are mistaken my dear BGT.  As DMast said, I am more of a Libertarian politically and philosophically I would say I am an Objectivist.

It could easily be argued that you are an advocate for inequality in the human race by saying that I have any obligation to take care of anyone other than myself.  Are we all equals here or not? ;-()

Yes we are equals, but I'm not insinuating that you have an obligation to take care of anyone other than yourself. I mean, obviously, you take care of your wife, children, pets, parents... :whistle: But even volunteer work is nice to do. It feels good to know you have helped someone you know. ;-()



Offline monstertruck

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #36 on: January 21, 2008, 11:04:22 PM »
Then monstertruck should clarify his comments. :)
Have I made myself "crystal clear"? ;-()


You have proven that you are believe in social Darwinism.

That is the belief that humans (like plants and animals) compete for existence.. survival of the fittest. The government should not interfere in anything like regulating the economy or helping with poverty. Instead, they favor a laissez-faire approach to government, or "let them do" in terms of self-regulation. In effect, the strong will survive and the weak will die off.
You are mistaken my dear BGT.  As DMast said, I am more of a Libertarian politically and philosophically I would say I am an Objectivist.

It could easily be argued that you are an advocate for inequality in the human race by saying that I have any obligation to take care of anyone other than myself.  Are we all equals here or not? ;-()

Yes we are equals, but I'm not insinuating that you have an obligation to take care of anyone other than yourself. I mean, obviously, you take care of your wife, children, pets, parents... :whistle: But even volunteer work is nice to do. It feels good to know you have helped someone you know. ;-()
I think it feels best to help someone help themselves, know what I mean? ;-()
Hope you are having a mindful and peaceful MLK day!
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Offline BGT

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2008, 11:28:48 PM »

I think it feels best to help someone help themselves, know what I mean? ;-()
Hope you are having a mindful and peaceful MLK day!

But how can you help someone help themselves if you don't even advocate saving them from flood waters?



Offline dmastous

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2008, 11:37:59 PM »

I think it feels best to help someone help themselves, know what I mean? ;-()
Hope you are having a mindful and peaceful MLK day!

But how can you help someone help themselves if you don't even advocate saving them from flood waters?

Who said he doesn't advocate saving people from flood waters? It amazes me how things get twisted in normal conversation. After two and a half years of help, help is being taken away. If I feel that two and a half years of assistance is enough that gets interpreted as I don't think they should get help.
I have ZERO problem with the help given to the victims of hurricane Katrina. They needed it. So did the victims in Biloxi and Gulfport and other cities that got completely wiped out, flattened by the hurricane. I don't hear them complaining about being cut off (maybe they are, but I'm not hearing it). There comes a time when the umbilical cord must be cut. They need to get on with their lives.

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I worry about these things .

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Offline monstertruck

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Re: Katrina victim sues for $3 quadrillion
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2008, 12:03:57 AM »
BGT you've just contradicted yourself in reply #35 and reply #37.
Are you saying I have an obligation to others or not?
If so, what gives you the right to force your morals on me?  I would have guessed
that you were a person of tolerance and acceptance.  Why would you force me to pay for someone elses mistakes?

I think if you look back and read my first response in this thread you will find that my biggest beef is with the lawsuit not with "saving folks from floodwaters".
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