Author Topic: Quotes you like  (Read 52025 times)

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Offline jesse james

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #580 on: July 19, 2012, 11:07:10 AM »
We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.
 
Abraham Lincoln


An apt quote this election year.

Itís a nice phrase, but donít take too much comfort in platitudes-weĎve had a discussion about
the US constitution before.
It was drafted by a select few, for a select few just as constitutions the world over always have been.
The proclaimed virtue of the constitution, as exemplified by your quote, is that it is designed to be immutable-at least in the broad substantial sense-it isnít meant to be beyond tinkering and changes by and individuals whether democratically elected or not.
But by being above change from individuals or groups, any claim to be democratic or the servant of the people also become suspect.
By anticipating and trying to avoid the tyrannies of government or groups who may wish to impose their will,  it enshrines and imposes the tyranny of those who drew it up, making man made legislation sacrosanct.
The only way you can know what the will of the people is, is via real democracy, otherwise how do you know what the will of the people is?


On your earlier point about communicating with the US public, if adopting a certain language to communicate is convincing then itís
because of the way the US has mythologized itís own past and re-presents this in order to provide a acceptable vision of itself.
 Historical anomalies are rife and embedded in the American psyche, so for example the wagon train period was a much later phase of history than presented in Westerns and the  larger tribes eg Apache didnít attack them at all. The mastery of the message is essential in the mass seduction of attitudes.
All throughout history the worst excesses of mankind are when facile self images and gestures squeeze out reality.
Iím not comparing the US or the UK with Nazi Germany by any means, but a self aggrandising  view of German history coupled with unprecedented propaganda machine was part of what made 1930ís Germany what it was-a fascist democracy.
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline propstoart

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #581 on: July 24, 2012, 09:48:57 AM »
If by 'informative' you mean opinionated, I agree.

There are far more adjectives in his work than actual facts.

Some folks prefer 'journalists' that opine rather than report.
Makes for the sort of reading found in most romance novels.....knowledgeable or not.
Sorry for the delayed response.. I've been away visiting family.. :)
I am an avid reader, not an expert on the art of journalism. I will the matter of definitions to you, Monster!
However, if you think Mr. Escobar is romantacizing/ fantacizing in his articles for the AT, you are mistaken..
Facts are not necessarily separated from their logical interpretation, but an inevitable precursor of it..
Quality journalism require quality facts/stories.. Harsh truths that stand the test of world media attention are not normally the ingredients of romance novels, Monster.. I ought to know, cuz I like to read a romance occasionally..  ;-() ;-()
The quotes from the founders of the American nation are great on paper, but are they relavant in today's world??

Offline jesse james

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #582 on: July 25, 2012, 04:23:24 PM »
If by 'informative' you mean opinionated, I agree.

There are far more adjectives in his work than actual facts.

Some folks prefer 'journalists' that opine rather than report.
Makes for the sort of reading found in most romance novels.....knowledgeable or not.
Sorry for the delayed response.. I've been away visiting family.. :)
I am an avid reader, not an expert on the art of journalism. I will the matter of definitions to you, Monster!
However, if you think Mr. Escobar is romantacizing/ fantacizing in his articles for the AT, you are mistaken..
Facts are not necessarily separated from their logical interpretation, but an inevitable precursor of it..
Quality journalism require quality facts/stories.. Harsh truths that stand the test of world media attention are not normally the ingredients of romance novels, Monster.. I ought to know, cuz I like to read a romance occasionally..  ;-() ;-()
The quotes from the founders of the American nation are great on paper, but are they relavant in today's world??

Quotes from the founders of America are relevant  in that they are believed to be what America is about by many Americans.  In a sense they illustrate the gap between the reality and the belief.
  Most people are wedded to some aspect of their countries past, sometimes this is a good thing. But the US is uniquely powerful and peculiarly tethered to some fixed point in the past that was never democratically mandated and provides a bulwark against positive change by reinforcing an idea that things can't be all that bad after all.
  Don't get me wrong there are many far worse regimes than the US in terms of the treatment of their own citizens-North Korea and China spring to mind- but they tend to suppress citizens internally rather than the having messianic desire to control and subordinate outside their own democratic sphere as the US does.
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #583 on: July 25, 2012, 09:54:29 PM »
If by 'informative' you mean opinionated, I agree.

There are far more adjectives in his work than actual facts.

Some folks prefer 'journalists' that opine rather than report.
Makes for the sort of reading found in most romance novels.....knowledgeable or not.
Sorry for the delayed response.. I've been away visiting family.. :)
I am an avid reader, not an expert on the art of journalism. I will the matter of definitions to you, Monster!
However, if you think Mr. Escobar is romantacizing/ fantacizing in his articles for the AT, you are mistaken..
Facts are not necessarily separated from their logical interpretation, but an inevitable precursor of it..
Quality journalism require quality facts/stories.. Harsh truths that stand the test of world media attention are not normally the ingredients of romance novels, Monster.. I ought to know, cuz I like to read a romance occasionally..  ;-() ;-()
The quotes from the founders of the American nation are great on paper, but are they relavant in today's world??

Quotes from the founders of America are relevant  in that they are believed to be what America is about by many Americans.  In a sense they illustrate the gap between the reality and the belief.    Most people are wedded to some aspect of their countries past, sometimes this is a good thing. But the US is uniquely powerful and peculiarly tethered to some fixed point in the past that was never democratically mandated and provides a bulwark against positive change by reinforcing an idea that things can't be all that bad after all.
  Don't get me wrong there are many far worse regimes than the US in terms of the treatment of their own citizens-North Korea and China spring to mind- but they tend to suppress citizens internally rather than the having messianic desire to control and subordinate outside their own democratic sphere as the US does.
Agreed.  Given the choice, I'd much rather have lived in the framework of the late 1700's than the present.  It wasn't perfect, but most folks seemed to have been more self-reliant then.
CONK da ball!!!

Offline hercules

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #584 on: July 26, 2012, 09:41:02 PM »
do they have to be quotes by the tennis players?
 
i am am huge fan of great quotes.
PRAY FOR DEATH

Offline propstoart

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #585 on: July 27, 2012, 03:25:28 AM »
"It only lasted one blissful day. But bravo to Rosol for reminding us that there is a "zone." If he could pass on the GPS coordinates to other journeymen, they'd be most appreciative. - Jon Wertheim, SI.com, http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/tennis/news/20120708/wimbledon-2012-wrapup/#ixzz21oDp8NQC

« Last Edit: July 27, 2012, 03:32:54 AM by propstoart »

Offline Imsda

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #586 on: July 29, 2012, 01:21:12 PM »
Do what you love because you will never work a day in your life

Offline EMBtennis

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #587 on: July 31, 2012, 11:35:36 PM »
"Don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion!" Coach Rudy T
Rafael Nadal and Grigor Dimitrov - greatness in the making!

Offline propstoart

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #588 on: August 01, 2012, 09:30:31 AM »
"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." - 'The Network' (1976).
---
For the record, 'America' could be replaced with 'India', 'Canada', etc. and the quote would hold true...

Offline jesse james

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #589 on: August 01, 2012, 12:29:47 PM »
"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." - 'The Network' (1976).
---
For the record, 'America' could be replaced with 'India', 'Canada', etc. and the quote would hold true...

OK, but having identified the democratic deficit and dearth of prolitarian empowerment, how do you
explain their complicity with a system they find both unrepresentative and oppressive?
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #590 on: August 01, 2012, 07:55:45 PM »
Apathy rules the masses.
CONK da ball!!!

Offline propstoart

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #591 on: August 01, 2012, 09:39:27 PM »
"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." - 'The Network' (1976).
---
For the record, 'America' could be replaced with 'India', 'Canada', etc. and the quote would hold true...

OK, but having identified the democratic deficit and dearth of prolitarian empowerment, how do you
explain their complicity with a system they find both unrepresentative and oppressive?

"The country gotta pay the Fed Reserve,
Kick back to the banksters, haven't you learned,
You protest cops or patrols on the street,
But I bought city hall so I own the police.
"

      - Immortal Technique, 'Rich Man's World'.

The Occupy Movement that rocked the world should prove that people are not apathetic to the corruption of the political class.. The excesses of the State render the masses comatose.. All the while, the media is 'manufacturing consent', convincing us that the Gov'ment is good!!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2012, 09:40:27 PM by propstoart »

Offline Clay Death

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #592 on: August 02, 2012, 12:53:59 AM »
"Don't ever underestimate the heart of a champion!" Coach Rudy T

i actually remember that one general T.

that was and still is an awesome quote.

Offline jesse james

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #593 on: August 02, 2012, 03:55:57 AM »
"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." - 'The Network' (1976).
---
For the record, 'America' could be replaced with 'India', 'Canada', etc. and the quote would hold true...

OK, but having identified the democratic deficit and dearth of prolitarian empowerment, how do you
explain their complicity with a system they find both unrepresentative and oppressive?

"The country gotta pay the Fed Reserve,
Kick back to the banksters, haven't you learned,
You protest cops or patrols on the street,
But I bought city hall so I own the police.
"

      - Immortal Technique, 'Rich Man's World'.

The Occupy Movement that rocked the world should prove that people are not apathetic to the corruption of the political class.. The excesses of the State render the masses comatose.. All the while, the media is 'manufacturing consent', convincing us that the Gov'ment is good!!

well said!
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #594 on: August 02, 2012, 05:48:30 AM »
"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." - 'The Network' (1976).
---
For the record, 'America' could be replaced with 'India', 'Canada', etc. and the quote would hold true...

OK, but having identified the democratic deficit and dearth of prolitarian empowerment, how do you
explain their complicity with a system they find both unrepresentative and oppressive?

"The country gotta pay the Fed Reserve,
Kick back to the banksters, haven't you learned,
You protest cops or patrols on the street,
But I bought city hall so I own the police.
"

      - Immortal Technique, 'Rich Man's World'.

The Occupy Movement that rocked the world should prove that people are not apathetic to the corruption of the political class.. The excesses of the State render the masses comatose.. All the while, the media is 'manufacturing consent', convincing us that the Gov'ment is good!!
The self-annointed "99%" are anything but that.
CONK da ball!!!

Offline jesse james

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #595 on: August 02, 2012, 06:01:12 AM »
"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." - 'The Network' (1976).
---
For the record, 'America' could be replaced with 'India', 'Canada', etc. and the quote would hold true...

OK, but having identified the democratic deficit and dearth of prolitarian empowerment, how do you
explain their complicity with a system they find both unrepresentative and oppressive?

"The country gotta pay the Fed Reserve,
Kick back to the banksters, haven't you learned,
You protest cops or patrols on the street,
But I bought city hall so I own the police.
"

      - Immortal Technique, 'Rich Man's World'.

The Occupy Movement that rocked the world should prove that people are not apathetic to the corruption of the political class.. The excesses of the State render the masses comatose.. All the while, the media is 'manufacturing consent', convincing us that the Gov'ment is good!!
The self-annointed "99%" are anything but that.

anything but what, apathetic?
You have a habit of chipping in with a line or word or two and then donít explain what you mean by it.
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way

Offline propstoart

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #596 on: August 02, 2012, 09:40:47 AM »
Guys, in memory of the great American author, playwright and essayist Gore Vidal, here are some of his wittiest quips, as chosen by the Guardian:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/aug/01/gore-vidal-best-quotes?newsfeed=true

MY personal favourite:
"Think of the earth as a living organism that is being attacked by billions of bacteria whose numbers double every forty years. Either the host dies, or the virus dies, or both die."

That is human civilization's relationship with the Earth - one of exploitation; even when facing annihilation of the species.

Offline monstertruck

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #597 on: August 03, 2012, 06:22:42 AM »
"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." - 'The Network' (1976).
---
For the record, 'America' could be replaced with 'India', 'Canada', etc. and the quote would hold true...

OK, but having identified the democratic deficit and dearth of prolitarian empowerment, how do you
explain their complicity with a system they find both unrepresentative and oppressive?

"The country gotta pay the Fed Reserve,
Kick back to the banksters, haven't you learned,
You protest cops or patrols on the street,
But I bought city hall so I own the police.
"

      - Immortal Technique, 'Rich Man's World'.

The Occupy Movement that rocked the world should prove that people are not apathetic to the corruption of the political class.. The excesses of the State render the masses comatose.. All the while, the media is 'manufacturing consent', convincing us that the Gov'ment is good!!
The self-annointed "99%" are anything but that.

anything but what, apathetic?
You have a habit of chipping in with a line or word or two and then donít explain what you mean by it.
Anything but representative of 99% of the population.
They only represent themselves and those who've designated them as representatives.  Another clever ploy by Prez B.O.
Follow the roots of the organization and you'll find that the original organizers of the movement are nothing more than anti-capitalists from around the globe.  In no way do they, or their supporters represent "99%" of the U.S. population.  Nothing more than radical leftist activists doing what they do best, self-annointing. :)
CONK da ball!!!

Offline propstoart

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #598 on: August 03, 2012, 10:56:57 AM »
McCarthy might have died, but his bigoted ideas definitely survive.. Anytime, a movement arises demanding social equality and economic justice, it is labeled as 'radical left-ist', 'anti-capitalist', etc.. IMO, the world of mainstream politics in the US has been sabotaged by the 1% so thoroughly, that there is only 1 legitimate player in town - the Profit Party!!

Offline jesse james

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Re: Quotes you like
« Reply #599 on: August 03, 2012, 11:31:56 AM »
"You get up on your little twenty-one inch screen and howl about America and democracy. There is no America. There is no democracy. There is only IBM and ITT and AT&T, and DuPont, Dow, Union Carbide and Exxon. Those are the nations of the world today." - 'The Network' (1976).
---
For the record, 'America' could be replaced with 'India', 'Canada', etc. and the quote would hold true...

OK, but having identified the democratic deficit and dearth of prolitarian empowerment, how do you
explain their complicity with a system they find both unrepresentative and oppressive?

"The country gotta pay the Fed Reserve,
Kick back to the banksters, haven't you learned,
You protest cops or patrols on the street,
But I bought city hall so I own the police.
"

      - Immortal Technique, 'Rich Man's World'.

The Occupy Movement that rocked the world should prove that people are not apathetic to the corruption of the political class.. The excesses of the State render the masses comatose.. All the while, the media is 'manufacturing consent', convincing us that the Gov'ment is good!!
The self-annointed "99%" are anything but that.

anything but what, apathetic?
You have a habit of chipping in with a line or word or two and then donít explain what you mean by it.
Anything but representative of 99% of the population.
They only represent themselves and those who've designated them as representatives.  Another clever ploy by Prez B.O.
Follow the roots of the organization and you'll find that the original organizers of the movement are nothing more than anti-capitalists from around the globe.  In no way do they, or their supporters represent "99%" of the U.S. population.  Nothing more than radical leftist activists doing what they do best, self-annointing. :)

Occupy isn't representative in a formal democratic way, no, but that's transparently a straw man argument you've set up anyway.  The people who have engaged in the the occupy movement are a mixed bag, but they do represent mainstream opinion on many things-for example the banks bail out which was overwhelmingly opposed by public opinion but it still went ahead despite the lack of democratic backing, precisely because it served the interests of the opulent elites in exactly the way previous bail outs have.
It's very telling that you say the roots of the movement are 'nothing more than anti-capitalists from around the globe' as if any argument or point they might make can be instantly dismissed on the grounds that they're 'anti capitalist' rather than analysing what they say-which i think is more convoluted than you seem to allow.
Allow me to demonstrate the logic of your position.
  Lets suppose the roots of occupy are 'nothing more than anti-capitalists from around the globe' as you suggest, does that prove they're wrong or that they can't express something that is commonly thought or believed?
  Now imagine a group of neocons formed a group and set themselves up near the White House to protest against some imaginary imminent war the US was about to engage in. There was popular public support for what the neocons were saying, now ask yourself does it make sense to dismiss there arguments because they were nothing more than neocons form around the US?
  The neocons could articulate the general opposition within the country regarding the up and coming war and have broad support without having any democratic mandate and dispute public opposition to some of their other ideas.
 
   I don't want to get into a discussion about capitalism per ce, but i think any discussion about it would have to go  beyond abstractions of what capitalism would like itself to be, to the question of capitalism as it develops in reality. Whatís fundamental about capitalism has never been the free market, supply and demand allocation aspect of it, what is distinct about it is the issue of profit, it's rise and fall, and the related issue of wage-labour. This is the cycle that capitalism organises itself around, although without a clear sense of what is driving it.

The current economic crisis is a perfect case in point - no mainstream economist predicted it. In fact, there's no agreed upon theory from mainstream economists for why there are booms and busts or periods of growth followed by recession, under capitalism. Remember it wasn't that long ago that we heard the triumphantilist news that the era of boom and bust was over! In the West, the declining rate of profit after '97 was read as a sign that capitalism needed to become more competitive, and one way of doing that was to 'liberalise' the financial markets to keep competitive with foreign markets. In terms of re-establishing 'profitability' it worked, but it was, as we all know, nothing but a chimera.
I am a lighthouse worn by the weather and the waves
And though I'm empty I still warn the sailors on their way