Topic: Swish's Journal.

[Tennis4you]

2 hours and 48 minutes is a long time for a 6-4, 6-4 win.  Must have been a brutal match.

[swish]

2 hours and 48 minutes is a long time for a 6-4, 6-4 win.  Must have been a brutal match.

I think it was the longest match of the year for 2 sets, but I counted 20 minutes for pregame practice. Many duece games and some long rallies. My partner had to go to the boys room a couple times too. We took our time.
The longest match I've had is a 3 setter, 3.5 hrs in midday sun, a killer to say the least. But so good to rehydrate after.

[JackD]

If I remember right 60 grams of protein is the daily requirement for an average joe.  Once your activitiy level increases beyond that the numbers get a bit sketchy.  I've always thought that timing and quality of protein are just as important as total consumed.  Within the 1/2 hour after workouts is my standard.  I've experimented with both natural and synthetic proteins and actually prefer the natural though it's less convenient.
[/quote]

60 grams is awfully low for anyone other than a couch potato. Timing is actually not that important. What do you mean by quality exactly?  Any animal-based protein is good, any plant-based protein is not because it lacks the necessary amino profile (soy being the highly controversial exception---men shouldn't use soy as a basic source of protein as it elevates estrogen levels). Also, what do you mean by synthetic proteins?  I assume you meant protein supplements, powders and such. These are VERY natural proteins my friend, whey being the most popular is made from milk.

If you do some light exercise regularly, including just playing tennis, you need to consume absolutely no less than .5 g per pound of bodyweight, .75 g per pound of bodyweight would be better. If you do any weighttraining or other high intensity training, 1 g protein per pound of bodyweight is OK, 1.5 is better, especially if you do both high intensity training and play tennis (which I assume is what many of you do). If you only weighttrain once per week for example, then you should still consume 1 g per pound on that day with the majority consumed post-workout.

Timing is not such a big deal, all that really matters is that you have aminos flowing around. If you eat a decent breakfast with a decent amount of protein and then workout at noon or something you will be fine. If you wake up and first thing you do is some kind of exercise, chug a protein shake with some sugar before starting, or drink part of it at first and continue sipping through the workout. The so-called window right after working out is proving to be false, or at least nearly irrelevant. Eat whatever you want whenever you want after a workout as long as it fits your diet plan. There is no need to fret over getting a protein shake down your throat within 30 minutes after a workout.

My weight fluctuates between 165-175 pounds (and I am 5'8" or 9"). When I am weightraining 3 times a week, I try to consume 200 grams per day. Even when I am not weighttraining at all, I still shoot for 150 or so. One reason is to prevent muscle loss, but another very valid reason is because protein gives humans the most satiety which keeps hunger at bay and helps prevent the overeating of carbs.  When I am deiting to lose fat (or weight), I consume even more protein, and in fact, keep a ratio of protein to carbs at no less than 2-1.

[swish]

If I remember right 60 grams of protein is the daily requirement for an average joe.  Once your activitiy level increases beyond that the numbers get a bit sketchy.  I've always thought that timing and quality of protein are just as important as total consumed.  Within the 1/2 hour after workouts is my standard.  I've experimented with both natural and synthetic proteins and actually prefer the natural though it's less convenient.

60 grams is awfully low for anyone other than a couch potato. Timing is actually not that important. What do you mean by quality exactly?  Any animal-based protein is good, any plant-based protein is not because it lacks the necessary amino profile (soy being the highly controversial exception---men shouldn't use soy as a basic source of protein as it elevates estrogen levels). Also, what do you mean by synthetic proteins?  I assume you meant protein supplements, powders and such. These are VERY natural proteins my friend, whey being the most popular is made from milk.

If you do some light exercise regularly, including just playing tennis, you need to consume absolutely no less than .5 g per pound of bodyweight, .75 g per pound of bodyweight would be better. If you do any weighttraining or other high intensity training, 1 g protein per pound of bodyweight is OK, 1.5 is better, especially if you do both high intensity training and play tennis (which I assume is what many of you do). If you only weighttrain once per week for example, then you should still consume 1 g per pound on that day with the majority consumed post-workout.

Timing is not such a big deal, all that really matters is that you have aminos flowing around. If you eat a decent breakfast with a decent amount of protein and then workout at noon or something you will be fine. If you wake up and first thing you do is some kind of exercise, chug a protein shake with some sugar before starting, or drink part of it at first and continue sipping through the workout. The so-called window right after working out is proving to be false, or at least nearly irrelevant. Eat whatever you want whenever you want after a workout as long as it fits your diet plan. There is no need to fret over getting a protein shake down your throat within 30 minutes after a workout.

My weight fluctuates between 165-175 pounds (and I am 5'8" or 9"). When I am weightraining 3 times a week, I try to consume 200 grams per day. Even when I am not weighttraining at all, I still shoot for 150 or so. One reason is to prevent muscle loss, but another very valid reason is because protein gives humans the most satiety which keeps hunger at bay and helps prevent the overeating of carbs.  When I am deiting to lose fat (or weight), I consume even more protein, and in fact, keep a ratio of protein to carbs at no less than 2-1.

Nice post, I admit I haven't been keeping up with the latest on the protein area. Most of my information from a few years past has been to consume protein within a half an hour after workout and that's what I did. I never really knew if it worked or not but just followed advice of others. I always try to add some whey at least once a day.

I lost 25 pounds a few years back by consuming whey and powdered oatmeal for breakfast and cutting out most carbs in my diet. At the time I was taking in about 200 grams a day. I never used incomplete proteins.
Right now I use whey and micellar protein. The micellar protein takes up to 8 hrs to digest and gives the body a steady stream of protein as it's dissolved slowly. Whey protein is dissolved into the body very quickly and after a short amount of time the body becomes catabolic, breaking down muscle in some areas to feed the most recently stressed muscle.
The micellar protein is great before bed and should cut down on catabolism during most of the sleep cycle.

[Tennis4you]

2 hours and 48 minutes is a long time for a 6-4, 6-4 win.  Must have been a brutal match.

I think it was the longest match of the year for 2 sets, but I counted 20 minutes for pregame practice. Many duece games and some long rallies. My partner had to go to the boys room a couple times too. We took our time.
The longest match I've had is a 3 setter, 3.5 hrs in midday sun, a killer to say the least. But so good to rehydrate after.

I played a 2.5 hour doubles match but it was 7-6, 7-6.  No bathroom breaks and I did not count the warm-up, but then again we played 4 extra games than you did and we had to play 2 tie-breakers.  Both yours and my matches were loooooong. 

[monstertruck]

Thanks for the protein info JackD and Swish!
Most of what I'm going on is what I learned over 15 years ago.

[JackD]

No problem!

I mean absolutely no offense Swish, please don't take any, because I know how difficult is to sift through all the mis- and disinformation out there, but you definitely have some seriously wrong ideas about protein. I wouldn't want others to read your posts and then start thinking the same things.

Whey protein is not catabolic. That is simply impossible. Also, recently the fitness industry has gotten everybody panicking about 'catabolism' in order to sell more protein. First of all, the body is constantly breaking down and rebuilding proteins. The body likes to stay in the same state (there is a nice word for that, but the longer I stay in Japan, the more I forget my English), so the net result at the end of the day is usually zero. The key to building muscles mass is to increase the protein synthesis so that at the end of the day, there is a positive net result of the breakdown/synthesis ratio. Two things are required---a stressor to stimulate protein synthesis (weight training) and the surplus energy to fuel the process (food). If you really want to gain muscle, just consuming a bunch of extra protein isn't really going to help. The body needs the raw material (aminos) plus the extra energy required to use the raw materials to make a finished product. Protein synthesis is a very energy-demanding activity, so the body has to really be forced to do it. Your total calories must be quite a bit over your daily caloric needs to create the hormonal environment so the body will feel comfortable wasting so much energy on such a trivial thing (to put it simply).

By the same token, catabolism is not such a simple thing to get yourself into. The body has evolved over millions of years to survive on infrequent eating. This adaption is the very reason why everyone is so fat now. First of all catabolism DOES NOT EQUAL breaking down skeletal muscle for energy. Breaking down skeletal muscle for energy is one of the body's last resorts actually. As stated, the body is constantly 'catabolizing' and 'anabolizing', and the body has adapted to surviving very well on infrequent eating, so your tiny little fast every night while you sleep is going to cause you to 'catabolize yourself' with as much possibility as a flea has of picking you up and piledriving you into the pavement. This is ESPECIALLY so when you are eating at or above maintenance and have been long enough to change your hormonal profile so that the body is happy to synthesize protein and store fat into fat cells.

Even with dieting, it is nothing to worry about. You can even go an extreme diet of only protein and some vegetables (for nutrition, not calories). Not only have you nearly completely cut out carbs and fat, your total daily calories are extremely low, thousands of calories lower than your daily needs. However, even in this extreme case, just the presence of an abundunt supply of aminos in your blood will prevent your body from breaking down skeletal muscle for energy, until fat stores become extremely low (although what the body thinks is extremely low does depend on genetics, everybody has their own 'set points'), which could take weeks or even months depending on how fat you were when you started. If you also combine this with weight training even only once a week to provide protein synthesis stimulus, you are practically guaranteed not to lose any skeletal muscle (ok, maybe a couple grams here and there). Actually, the problem with this kind of diet is not the "inevitable catabolism", but the extreme hormonal state your body will be in. This hormonal state will be the reason you have to quit the diet before you have lost all the fat you wanted, NOT because of the dreaded skeletal muscle loss. I actually have done this diet several times myself. You would be surprised at how capable you still are even in such a state. Yes, you do lose some strength, but this is only because you have no 'easy energy' glycogen in the muscles and blood. This also seems to cause a problem with proper neuromuscular transmissions, but the body always adapts and you can (or at least I did) nearly return to pre-diet strength levels by the end of the diet (which was always pretty short term for me because I was fairly low-bodyfat to begin with). You can read my Training Log if you are interested, although I only have the last one I did documented. If you are interested, www.barbellpurist.com .

But anyway, the bottom line is the protein industry has really gotten everybody buying into this catabolism crap, and it is something you absolutely do not need to be concerned with. If you are dieting, limiting carbs, weight training, and getting enough protein THROUGHOUT THE DAY are the key points. If you are gaining, again, meeting your DAILY caloric goals are the key points, which can be harder than dieting for some people, constantly eating 1000 calories a day more than your body needs or wants can get difficult! If you normally go to bed at 12, but you have already made your daily caloric target by 6 pm, you don't need to drink some special concoction before going to sleep to prevent the catabolism boogeyman from haunting you! 

[monstertruck]

Sounds like you've got a good grasp of the process!!!
Thanks again for the info.

[swish]

No problem!

I mean absolutely no offense Swish, please don't take any, because I know how difficult is to sift through all the mis- and disinformation out there, but you definitely have some seriously wrong ideas about protein. I wouldn't want others to read your posts and then start thinking the same things.

Whey protein is not catabolic. That is simply impossible. Also, recently the fitness industry has gotten everybody panicking about 'catabolism' in order to sell more protein. First of all, the body is constantly breaking down and rebuilding proteins. The body likes to stay in the same state (there is a nice word for that, but the longer I stay in Japan, the more I forget my English), so the net result at the end of the day is usually zero. The key to building muscles mass is to increase the protein synthesis so that at the end of the day, there is a positive net result of the breakdown/synthesis ratio. Two things are required---a stressor to stimulate protein synthesis (weight training) and the surplus energy to fuel the process (food). If you really want to gain muscle, just consuming a bunch of extra protein isn't really going to help. The body needs the raw material (aminos) plus the extra energy required to use the raw materials to make a finished product. Protein synthesis is a very energy-demanding activity, so the body has to really be forced to do it. Your total calories must be quite a bit over your daily caloric needs to create the hormonal environment so the body will feel comfortable wasting so much energy on such a trivial thing (to put it simply).

By the same token, catabolism is not such a simple thing to get yourself into. The body has evolved over millions of years to survive on infrequent eating. This adaption is the very reason why everyone is so fat now. First of all catabolism DOES NOT EQUAL breaking down skeletal muscle for energy. Breaking down skeletal muscle for energy is one of the body's last resorts actually. As stated, the body is constantly 'catabolizing' and 'anabolizing', and the body has adapted to surviving very well on infrequent eating, so your tiny little fast every night while you sleep is going to cause you to 'catabolize yourself' with as much possibility as a flea has of picking you up and piledriving you into the pavement. This is ESPECIALLY so when you are eating at or above maintenance and have been long enough to change your hormonal profile so that the body is happy to synthesize protein and store fat into fat cells.

Even with dieting, it is nothing to worry about. You can even go an extreme diet of only protein and some vegetables (for nutrition, not calories). Not only have you nearly completely cut out carbs and fat, your total daily calories are extremely low, thousands of calories lower than your daily needs. However, even in this extreme case, just the presence of an abundunt supply of aminos in your blood will prevent your body from breaking down skeletal muscle for energy, until fat stores become extremely low (although what the body thinks is extremely low does depend on genetics, everybody has their own 'set points'), which could take weeks or even months depending on how fat you were when you started. If you also combine this with weight training even only once a week to provide protein synthesis stimulus, you are practically guaranteed not to lose any skeletal muscle (ok, maybe a couple grams here and there). Actually, the problem with this kind of diet is not the "inevitable catabolism", but the extreme hormonal state your body will be in. This hormonal state will be the reason you have to quit the diet before you have lost all the fat you wanted, NOT because of the dreaded skeletal muscle loss. I actually have done this diet several times myself. You would be surprised at how capable you still are even in such a state. Yes, you do lose some strength, but this is only because you have no 'easy energy' glycogen in the muscles and blood. This also seems to cause a problem with proper neuromuscular transmissions, but the body always adapts and you can (or at least I did) nearly return to pre-diet strength levels by the end of the diet (which was always pretty short term for me because I was fairly low-bodyfat to begin with). You can read my Training Log if you are interested, although I only have the last one I did documented. If you are interested, www.barbellpurist.com .

But anyway, the bottom line is the protein industry has really gotten everybody buying into this catabolism crap, and it is something you absolutely do not need to be concerned with. If you are dieting, limiting carbs, weight training, and getting enough protein THROUGHOUT THE DAY are the key points. If you are gaining, again, meeting your DAILY caloric goals are the key points, which can be harder than dieting for some people, constantly eating 1000 calories a day more than your body needs or wants can get difficult! If you normally go to bed at 12, but you have already made your daily caloric target by 6 pm, you don't need to drink some special concoction before going to sleep to prevent the catabolism boogeyman from haunting you! 

Thanks for the info, it really helps. And your right, I've read quite a few articles and it is very difficult to parse out what is the right info.

I'll be rereading and referencing your post. Thanks again!!! 

[swish]

Got out there and played some tennis, it was great!!! 

First match of the year.
The forhand was working pretty good but the backhand really was poor.

Won today 7-5, 6-2 but don't really care much, it was more of a practice match than anything.

More to come. 

[OSU Buckeye]

I hope it hasn't been as long since you have played since you have last posted in here?  Good that you got out!   

[swish]

I hope it hasn't been as long since you have played since you have last posted in here?  Good that you got out!  

It has OSU, and was driving me crazy!!!

The clubs around here are too expensive and no one I know wants to pay. 

So it's just waiting for nice weather to get the free courts, which are plentiful.

[OSU Buckeye]

I hope it hasn't been as long since you have played since you have last posted in here?  Good that you got out!  

It has OSU, and was driving me crazy!!!

The clubs around here are too expensive and no one I know wants to pay. 

So it's just waiting for nice weather to get the free courts, which are plentiful.

I feel that pain.  The clubs are too expensive but I realised some years back that tennis had to keep going for me even through the Winter. 

[swish]

Had a great day, 6-1,6-2 win. Don't mean much really, I'm not in a league where if you get better you play better players.

 Serve is improving quite a bit, I never practice it or anything else so when I see improvement I'm happy.

My 2 handed backhand is really kicking in this year too, from nowhere.

I just go over what the pros do mentally and it helps alot. At least I think so. 

Sooner or later I might join some club but hate to leave my friends behind (they aren't into it enough to pay). I just can't do it.

That's it for this week, I know I have the worst journal, but thanks to those who do stop by. 

[OSU Buckeye]

Good to see action in your journal and nice win!  I'd think you could play indoor in the Winter and still play with the others in the Summer. 

[swish]

Good to see action in your journal and nice win!  I'd think you could play indoor in the Winter and still play with the others in the Summer. 

I would destroy them worse than now.     

I think I may, I need some change, maybe when I start school I can find something there, maybe let those guys use me as a punching bag. 

I don't care that much, just like to play.

[swish]

Played with my drinking buddy.     

7-5, 5-7, 6-0 win today. Match time 3 hrs.
Good workout but I seemed sluggish.
I let some balls go right by me?? I could have got them but didn't, had this problem awhile back. Don't know where it comes from but lost only about 3 points that way, too much for something you can so something about easily.
The new shoes I got let my feet slide around in them too much on hard stops, so I guess I'll just have to tie them tighter.

[monstertruck]

Had a great day, 6-1,6-2 win. Don't mean much really, I'm not in a league where if you get better you play better players.

 Serve is improving quite a bit, I never practice it or anything else so when I see improvement I'm happy.

My 2 handed backhand is really kicking in this year too, from nowhere.

I just go over what the pros do mentally and it helps alot. At least I think so. 

Sooner or later I might join some club but hate to leave my friends behind (they aren't into it enough to pay). I just can't do it.

That's it for this week, I know I have the worst journal, but thanks to those who do stop by. 

Make the 2nd to worst.

[OSU Buckeye]

Played with my drinking buddy.     

7-5, 5-7, 6-0 win today. Match time 3 hrs.
Good workout but I seemed sluggish.
I let some balls go right by me?? I could have got them but didn't, had this problem awhile back. Don't know where it comes from but lost only about 3 points that way, too much for something you can so something about easily.
The new shoes I got let my feet slide around in them too much on hard stops, so I guess I'll just have to tie them tighter.

You guys didn't drink before the match or quite a bit the night before did you?

On the shoe issue, I like to get my feet used to new shoes and let the foot settle down into the shoe before using them in match situations.  I try to wear the shoes around as much as I can before actually using them on court.  The best way to break them in is hitting and re-tightening them as your feet settle in.  Good match BTW..............no matter the level you play at, its always fun to play close matches with even level opponents. 

[Jamesdster]

Nice job swish.  Way to pull out a 3-setter.